Curse

Damien · Dec 05, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

If you can bother, make your own groups. and anounce it as rank 3+. Nobody ask the group starter for his rank

iggk · Dec 05, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorien of Mandos

I am in awe that this thread has made it to 10 pages. With so many of you on here complaining about how hard it is to get in group without R3 it seems like there should be plenty of non-ranked players in tombs lfg. If you are all so good and just being discriminated against for lack of rank instead of lack of skill, you should have no trouble joining forces and beating the crap out of the R3+ team you saw forming in your district.

Get together, form a team, be willing to stay on the team even if you lose and work with the other people on your team to de termine where the weaknesses lie and ways you can improve, get on TS/Vent as this will make it much easier to communicate with your team (plus you will need it if you ever hope to land on a R3+ team). Also try to come up with an experimental build to try - you may be suprised when forming the group and find some high ranked players willing to join to try out your new build. If you feel daunted by trying to come up with an 8-person build, try developing a 4v4 build 1st and go try it out in TA so you can gain faction to unlock more stuff and increase the chance that you actually have the skills and runes needed to run on several more advanced tombs builds.

For god's sake stop crying about it and make an effort to circumvent it. All the effort that has been wasted complaining about the elitism in tombs could have instead been channeled into taking the steps needed to gain experience in tombs and prove to the PvP community that you are a worthwhile addition to their team.

[EDIT] I think what it really boils down to is patience. Good players understand that forming a team does not stop with having 8 players in your party. Time must be spent prior to going in to coordinate skills, communicate strategy, define roles, etc. If you really want to evolve your skill in tombs and gain that R3, you must be willing to stay patient even in the face of defeat. If your team loses, dont just quit and assume that the team was full of idiots, work with the players in your group and try to find a fix for why you lost. This is the only way you will ever actually become a skilled player, and you will be suprised at how easy it is to gain fame if you stick with your team and concentrate on trial and error vs. just quitting the group because they lost and then trying your luck with another random PUG.

hit the nail on the head.

when i start groups i try to get these points across but i allways end up booting the impatient people simply because from experiance i know there the ones who leave when we lose and sometime before.

anyone who stays around after multiple regroups and is willing to discuss what what wrong and how best to fix it gets added to my friends list, making the PUG problems alot less comon.

oscarmk · Dec 05, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Well ive been playing this game for 4 months now, and i did try some tombs at first, but it was kinda boring and yes it was hard to get a team. Anyway i have only done tombs like 6 times ever. I rather gvg, i have 150,000 faction but 11 fame.

Damia · Dec 05, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

i have never played tombs in the 3 months i have had the game because all the groups are really mean and rude, at least the pick up groups, and my guild doesn't enjoy pvp because we all came from eq2

OneArmedScissor · Dec 05, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damia

i have never played tombs in the 3 months i have had the game because all the groups are really mean and rude, at least the pick up groups, and my guild doesn't enjoy pvp because we all came from eq2

You're from EQ2... and you came to GW?

Bubba Lips · Dec 05, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

i would come to GW too if i played EQ2. My bro bought EQ2 and tried it out for a month as did i, pretty boring IMO.

Glasswalker · Dec 05, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorien of Mandos

[EDIT] I think what it really boils down to is patience. Good players understand that forming a team does not stop with having 8 players in your party. Time must be spent prior to going in to coordinate skills, communicate strategy, define roles, etc. If you really want to evolve your skill in tombs and gain that R3, you must be willing to stay patient even in the face of defeat. If your team loses, dont just quit and assume that the team was full of idiots, work with the players in your group and try to find a fix for why you lost. This is the only way you will ever actually become a skilled player, and you will be suprised at how easy it is to gain fame if you stick with your team and concentrate on trial and error vs. just quitting the group because they lost and then trying your luck with another random PUG.

/So Unbelievingly Signed.

When I started groups back in PvE I would try to get a feel for the group so that I could optimally arange my skills and points to best fit the team. Once you could reassign Attribute points without having to buy them I thought this was the only way to go. But I ask a Monk, "Are you Protection or Healing?" and half the team is "Go, go, go!". Ask a Warrior what weapon he specializes on, or try to explain to the group that I can go Orders necro if there's enough physical damage on the team, and people start to drop from impatience.

But Tombs is a different story. It feels a bit like coming home. There are a couple things you can assume from a Rank 3. They have a certain vocabulary and can participate in a plan. They carry weaponsets/skills/sometimes even armorsets (I for one change headgear with superior runes to match the team) that they are willing to swap out to fit the team. I can tell from the general rant that even the OP is frustrated with taking on random Rank0's, so why should someone who has won a few times?

P.S. If you are asked to participate in teamwork, and as a result you don't feel you get to know the map too well, try Googling "ToPK Video" and forget about the guy in the vid, just watch where he's going, and keep an eye on the minimap. That and playing a few times with noobs will get you enough familiarity.

asdar · Dec 05, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I started making up my own groups only and it's not much better that way but it is better.

The worst people aren't ever the people who don't know what they're doing or don't have the skills, it's the people who do. They always nitpick over crap that doesn't matter, complain when skills get left behind, and then leave when they die.

I'd way rather have a group of patient people who won't criticize and will at least try two runs in a row. The first run irons out the bugs, the second is the real test.

Gwenhywar · Dec 05, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbgtboy

if VIKI and Joke (guilds on first page of ladder) dont know what they are doing, then i totally agree with you.

And the fact that you beat a certain guild's team once or twice matters, seriously ... not like they won't beat you the other 20 times they meet you.

I'm pretty sure you didn't know that yet, but - guilds who play real builds actually go to test and tweak new builds in tombs. Which means, they expect to lose many maps before they determine the optimal skill combo for that build. Also they sometimes are training new monks etc, which naturally lowers the team's general effectiveness (what we've been doing lately alot - sure it means less HoH wins for a while, but it's a worthy investment to train those players up). But it might be too hard to understand for people who only ever play one build

.

oscarmk · Dec 05, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba Lips

i would come to GW too if i played EQ2. My bro bought EQ2 and tried it out for a month as did i, pretty boring IMO.

Well coming from eq2, im sure you would be more likely to pick wow.

Pagan Greyfeather · Dec 06, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

It was horrible. I couldn't stop reading. So many comments to make, wish I had found this thread earlier! lol But I will ignore the comments I wish to make and try to redirect this thread to its original purpose. If they are elitist then a.) they are dipwads who earned their fame by being carried through Tombs or b.) they are really, really good and don't feel like teaching a newb how to win the Hall. Great! So find someone else. Play something different. I think the OP said he's a mesmer? I can't walk into Tombs without tripping over mesmers. They are in every Build (sans IWAY) that I come across and they usually very effective. Be a trapper, everybody loves trappers! Develop a list of friends that you enjoy playing with in Tombs. My friends list is overflowing with people that I regularly play with in both the American and International districts. Its like anything else, it takes time to get to a point where you are comfortable with what you play and who you play with. And lets stop all the nerf talk. IWAY is not so powerful it can't be beat. (Don't know about you MATH guys, don't think we have ever met in Tombs.) It comes down to players and the amount of skill they possess. An ok build with skilled players will beat an uber build with unskilled players every time. Just my 2 cents.-Pagan

Sephir Demange · Dec 06, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Every time I come on these forums and see another Tombs Frustration thread I want to just walk away from GW for a month and come back to see how the environment has changed. The truth is this, 1.) There will ALWAYS be malcontents in tombs because new people are coming in all the time, they are new and inexperienced and no one wants them. But we all set our jaws and went and did something about it, stop wasting times on forums and go make a group. 2.) Yes there needs to be a better party finding system, but anyone could tell you that. Again, stop complaining on forums, go talk to the magic frog in Lions Arch, maybe he'll bring you it for Christmas. 3.) Yes the rank system is screwed up and likely always will be. Why? Because there is NO consequences for losing, only rewards for winning. The moral of the story is, rank can just as easily be a sign of overwhelming perseverance as it can be a sign of skill. In conclusion, this is a game people, go in there and try to be the changes you want to see, seek out like minded individuals and, most importantly, try to have just a little bit of fun. Can we please close this thread? It has gone on for 10 pages and tombs hasn't magically fixed itself for everyone, so lets take away their place to complain and force them to go out and play some more.

Elrodien · Dec 06, 2005, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Someone should publish this thread as an E-Book and send it to ANet. We could call it:

'I did it IWAY'

or 'Tomb Ranter'

I will stop now

Commander Ryker · Dec 07, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Is it just me or it it extremely hard to get into a team in Tombs? It is like a vicious circle! I can get to rank 3 cause I cant get into a team, and I cant get into a team cause I'm not rank 3 !!!

I think it's totally stupid to exclude someone because of their rank, or lack there of. Basically, all rank means is that you were lucky enough to be on a winning team. It really isn't an individual accomplishment. I have seen a lot ranked players that totally suck and some unranked that were totally awesome.

On the rare occassion that our guild has to get a pick-up, we never ask about rank because we just don't care. We only care that the person can play well. Rank is not an indication of a good player.

CAT · Dec 07, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

This weekend if any r1-2 earth eles wants to play in a r8+ pug of mine ill be happy to let one in as long as they follow directions ect, drop me a PM

Billiard · Dec 07, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

If you are having trouble getting into groups in order to Tomb, try finding a guild that does a lot of tombing and get some action that way. If after running with an organized guild group a while you want to go PUG, then you should have the rank to do it. I doubt though that after a guild group you'll want to PUG much if you can help it.

crimsonfilms · Dec 07, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Rank is not an indication of a good player.

Yes it is. It is ONE of many. Yes high rank does not guarantee good skills nor low rank guarantee poor skills. But it is better than nothing.
Rank also denotes experience.

Quote:

We only care that the person can play well.

And how do you do that?
First there is the problem of asking the right questions. Then getting the accurate answers.
Not to mention proof.

Rank is one way you can use to determine the viability of that person for Tombs. Along with others (like questioning their build, use voice, or just playing with them for 2 or 3 rounds), you can weed out most inexperienced players.

But disregarding rank totally is absolutely foolish if you are looking for the best skilled and experienced players you can team up with.

Quote:

Basically, all rank means is that you were lucky enough to be on a winning team.

180 fame to rank 3 and that is luck?
I am not saying rank 3 equals elite skillmanship but to attribute rank to luck is absolutely silly.

glenn_rolfe · Dec 08, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT

This weekend if any r1-2 earth eles wants to play in a r8+ pug of mine ill be happy to let one in as long as they follow directions ect, drop me a PM

Natures, it's probably not you that cares about having low ranked groups in your r8+, it's generaly the others.

For example, you know what it's like when you've got a 7/8 and you're looking for a prot, so you take in a lower ranked prot to get the group going and he's slow on condition removes, or doesn't guardian/shield the ghost straight away, or something like that, and that's a big reason you didn't cap, or lost. Then your group yells out kick him or I'm leaving, or they just leave.

That's why people use rank as a screening process, because it's simply gives them a higher chance to do better in game and keep a group together.

tafy69 · Dec 08, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

Natures, it's probably not you that cares about having low ranked groups in your r8+, it's generaly the others.

For example, you know what it's like when you've got a 7/8 and you're looking for a prot, so you take in a lower ranked prot to get the group going and he's slow on condition removes, or doesn't guardian/shield the ghost straight away, or something like that, and that's a big reason you didn't cap, or lost. Then your group yells out kick him or I'm leaving, or they just leave.

That's why people use rank as a screening process, because it's simply gives them a higher chance to do better in game and keep a group together.

Oh this has happened so many times its not funny, Nowadays you gota totally grill your monks to find out if they are good players. Asking their rank is just 1 question of many.

Note to IWAY players : Plz dont go R6 Monk LFG, cause you cant monk to save your lives...

minor · Dec 13, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Well all u ppl saying how much rank and fame matter give it up plz?
Rank by no means anything proves about the quality of the player for several reasons...
1. U can get it by sheer hours played because everyone wins sometimes
2. U can get it by iway and not really know much about the game.
3. The fact that a person can show a ceartin rank doesn't mean they got it with the profession their playing atm.
4.U can go buy a rank 9 on ebay if U want. and have the dough..

These are the main points i think ppl have been trying to make, i just put it in bullet points.

Too all the r3+ ppl here i understand that U are better than most if u earned it the hard the way but alot of ppl didn't so using rank to define a players worth is just silly.

My personal problem i played with a top 50 guild and have no way of showing that i can play well on a good team caz u get no fame for gvg; which is kinda weird considering the name of the game....